Your Booked - But There Is A Sound Limiter

[UKHero 0]

Leading on from another resurected post (Thanks Nigel) You have been booked all paid in advance etc, venue to far or for some other reason you did not get chance to check but when you get there, There is a sound limiter.

 

The staff won't let you plug in any where else. And its a wedding!!!

 

They have booked you because you have a projector and whant you to project some of there pictures during the reception. The sound limiter is just one light that flashes on just before the power is cut. The sound level is set very low, Infact the speeches using the in house PA cause it to cut out 3 times...

 

Your booked to play untill 1am and they want Rock Drum and Base and some old school Rave as part of your set. Dont forget you have already taken this gig so no saying I would not take the gig. That is not an option...

 

What would you do!!!!!

 

Nik

[Gary 0]

I'm booked to be at that venue for x hours, so...I will be st that venue for x hours. Simple.

 

Upon arrival I would set my own compressor/limiter to a level just below that which triggers the venues sound limiter, to prevent it triggering all night..(actually, I'd set a level a bit lower, to allow for guest noise adding to the monitored level)

 

I would speak with the hirers face-to-face upon arrival to explain the existance and workings of the noise limiter and introduce the rest of the audience to the noise limiter at the beginning of the night. It's possible that I would demonstrate the venue limiter triggering, if required.

 

The attendees may have a night of pleasant conversation over little more than background music, rather than adequate dance volumes, but I will have done everything that I could've done.

[Reverandfunk 0]

I'd have turned the job down at the initial mention of Drum & Bass lol

 

Panic i think lol

 

 

Nik - Dont ever do the village hotel at Dudley they have one and it ruined my night lol

[vokf 0]

 

Being new to this - heres what I would do:

 

Hopefully this will be found out early in the evening - at least whilst people are still Sobre!

 

Speak to the client, explain the problem. Suggest they find the venue manager.

The client should speak directly to the venue manager - I'd be on-hand for support, the main aim to formally ask permission to plug in elsewhere, offering to let the venue manager set the volume level if they are uneasy at this.

I'd also explain that the noise limiter is incorrectly set-up - possibly walk outside and see if the music is loud enough to cause a problem for any neighbours.

 

This would show the client that you're trying to help, and that the problem is outside your control.

 

I can image its a horrible situation, but if the venue manager is unhelpful, you'll have to keep the level low, modify (chewing gum/gaffa tape etc) the Level sensor - or find someone with a Generator... ;-)

 

I'll be interested to hear what the other more experienced people here post...

 

Jason

[UKHero 0]

I'd have turned the job down at the initial mention of Drum & Bass lol

 

Panic i think lol

Nik - Dont ever do the village hotel at Dudley they have one and it ruined my night lol

 

Some great answers so far guys... Love your answer especialy Gary.

 

Rev! I have not done it as yet. Is that the one on the big island by the Black country Museum and Dudley Zoo?

 

There is a part 2 to this question when we have some more answers.

 

Nik

Edited April 9, 2008 by UKHero

[Reverandfunk 0]

Thats the one, plus the staff were a nuisance lol

[TonyB 0]

I agree with Gary but would also add that you should never try to bypass or defeat the sound limiter. It was put there for a reason, probably complaints from neighbours. If you try to overcome it, the neighbours will complain again which will sometimes result in the level being turned down further which makes it more difficult for the next disco or for you if you work there again.

Edited April 9, 2008 by TonyB

[spinner 0]

Gary has said what I would have said, so there's no point in repeating it.

 

In reality I would have checked with the venue beforehand, having once been moaned at by audience members at a venue where the limiter was set so low that use of the mic. triggered it. In those circumstances, in which it's virtually impossible to have a relaxed party, I feel the venue owners should have explained the problem to the hirers and should not have taken the booking knowing that a DJ would be there.

 

Unfortunately it's virtually impossible to get people to understand the limitations when they are three sheets to the wind.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2008 by spinner

[Dream Catchers 0]

I would simply explain that the projector is not a piece of audio equipment and provides no sound, therefore there is no reason not to let me plug it in to a normal socket via an extension lead.

 

Jim

[jukeboxdj 0]

Gary and jim have pretty much covered what i would do

most of the venue managers i have come across have been quite good and let me plug in elsewhere as long as i behave myself

[UKHero 0]

Nope sorry projector has to go in the same socket as the sound limiter. And due to something happening between you checking said venue or the last time you played there the Limiter had been fitted so. No "I would have checked". The management is adament all entertainers equipment is plugged into the system.

 

Sorry sorry Spinner you can not get around the system.

[Partyprint 0]

I usually tell the venue I'll plug my cd players into the limiter so if it does go too loud then the cd will stop therefore so will the music. What I don't tell them is that i'll be using my laptop all night!!!

[UKHero 0]

I usually tell the venue I'll plug my cd players into the limiter so if it does go too loud then the cd will stop therefore so will the music. What I don't tell them is that i'll be using my laptop all night!!!

 

Dont matter the area your setting up in has two double wall sockets and there all wired to the limiter. There is no way to get around this system at all... What do you do..

 

BTW you have got to 9:30 now and doing the first dance it cuts out in the first verse. What now????

 

This is all Hypothetical BTW....

 

Nik

[TonyB 0]

Nope sorry projector has to go in the same socket as the sound limiter. And due to something happening between you checking said venue or the last time you played there the Limiter had been fitted so. No "I would have checked". The management is adament all entertainers equipment is plugged into the system.

 

Sorry sorry Spinner you can not get around the system.

 

If the venue insisted on that with the projector, I would point out that its likely to damage the projector and blow the bulb which costs £200 and by insisting that it is done that way, they accept all liability for loss or damage to the equipment. To be honest I can't see any venue being so petty minded as to insist on it.

[UKHero 0]

If the venue insisted on that with the projector, I would point out that its likely to damage the projector and blow the bulb which costs £200 and by insisting that it is done that way, they accept all liability for loss or damage to the equipment. To be honest I can't see any venue being so petty minded as to insist on it.

 

they refuse to take any liability. They say that the sound limiter was fitted by a pro company and has been checked and working correctly. They add your bulb could just go and you could say it was there fault.

 

They are paranoid about loosing there entertainment licence as they survive on weddings and functions and the local authoroties have said that one more complaint and thats it. So yes there going to be very petty minded where you and your equipment are concerned...

 

Nik

[TonyB 0]

they refuse to take any liability. They say that the sound limiter was fitted by a pro company and has been checked and working correctly. They add your bulb could just go and you could say it was there fault.

 

They are paranoid about loosing there entertainment licence as they survive on weddings and functions and the local authoroties have said that one more complaint and thats it. So yes there going to be very petty minded where you and your equipment are concerned...

 

Nik

 

A projector is not sound equipment and plugging it in elsewhere won't affect their licence.

 

The venue management have a duty of care not only to other people on their premises but to third party property too. If they insisted on making you use your equipment in such a way that it would get damaged then they are negligent. End of. They cannot deny their responsibility through a disclaimer if they are negligent.

 

If they throw obstacles in the way such as this, they very soon wouldn't have any clients anyway and I don't know of any venue that wouldn't bend over backwards to ensure the function goes without a hitch.

 

Sorry but as a hypothetical situation, this is getting a bit ridiculous and losing any credibility.

Edited April 9, 2008 by TonyB

[UKHero 0]

A projector is not sound equipment and plugging it in elsewhere won't affect their licence.

 

The venue management have a duty of care not only to other people on their premises but to third party property too. If they insisted on making you use you equipment in such a way that it would get damaged then they are negligent. End of. They cannot deny their responsibility through a disclaimer if they are negligent.

 

If they throw obstacles in the way such as this, they very soon wouldn't have any clients anyway and I don't know of any venue that wouldn't bend over backwards to ensure the function goes without a hitch.

 

Sorry but as a hypothetical situation, this is getting a bit ridiculous and losing any credibility.

 

No it is not I have done venues like this in the past... You only percieve that your equipment might be damaged as in the other thread about sound limiters there is no tangeable proof that it will.

 

Hotels sell on there best points and if they do mention the sound limiting device you can bet they will dress it up to be something that will make the disco keep a comfortable level for all the guests... They will not say anything about how much of a pain it will be on the night.

 

 

[TonyB 0]

No it is not I have done venues like this in the past... You only percieve that your equipment might be damaged as in the other thread about sound limiters there is no tangeable proof that it will.

 

Hotels sell on there best points and if they do mention the sound limiting device you can bet they will dress it up to be something that will make the disco keep a comfortable level for all the guests... They will not say anything about how much of a pain it will be on the night.

 

Thats different, you are talking about "sound" equipment. As already mentioned, if you know that if the power is shut off to a projector without allowing it to cool it will blow the lamp and cause damage to internal components through overheating. There is no perceived in that.

 

 

[DJ James Lake 0]

I actually had a situation exactly like this recently. It clearly states in my terms and conditions that I will not plug my equipment into a sound limiter period.

 

The venue refused to let me plug in elsewhere (wedding) until I asked them to explain to the bride and groom why they needed to locate another DJ who was willing to plug his equipment in while I was going to be packing my equipment back into the van.

 

They soon changed there mind.

[TonyB 0]

But were you using a projector? smile icon

[Dream Catchers 0]

It is FACT that damage is done if the projector is not allowed to cool as designed, I would show them the manual which states it. They would know that in any case as I am certain the hotel would be used to multi media presentations.

 

As an aside, I think I may look into what documentation they get for the limiter and what the EH regulations are on the use of it. If you think about it the in-house music doesn't go through it.

 

Jim

 

edit.

I have been looking at various documents on the net regarding sound limiters and they are just that.... SOUND LIMITERS.

Of all the venues that have documents online that I have read, they state that the AMPLIFIED SOUND SYSTEM must be connected to the limiter, there is no mention of ALL equipment being connected.

Also the "Environmental Protection Act 1990" Section 80 relates only to the noise pollution.

Edited April 9, 2008 by JimBoylan

[Dukesy 0]

Ok, calm down girls.

 

By and large, a disco set-up and additional requirements - in this case, a projector, will be 'close to hand for the DJ', running off the same ALLOCATED powerpoints - usually designated specifically for the entertainer. So if the projector is part of the disco set-up, and the limiter cuts in...potential damage to equip can happen, blah, blah, blah.

Unless it's desired for one of the first-duties of the newly married couple to cough-up for the claim to repair / replace the DJs equipment, blah, blah, blah why take a chance and instead, apply a little common sense?!

 

If the venue says that the DJ can set-up the projector/ screeen elsewhere in room / off another power point not connected to the limiter, and the B&G are happy with your basic solution...you'll make an effort so that no one is going to trip over leads - (but if they do, you are covered for PLI etc ) and no difficulties are going to result from the re-location of the projector (if actually required)...the table plan isn't going to be affected, venue is happy, you're happy, B&G happy etc...happy days! :Thumbup:

 

 

[UKHero 0]

I actually had a situation exactly like this recently. It clearly states in my terms and conditions that I will not plug my equipment into a sound limiter period.

 

The venue refused to let me plug in elsewhere (wedding) until I asked them to explain to the bride and groom why they needed to locate another DJ who was willing to plug his equipment in while I was going to be packing my equipment back into the van.

 

They soon changed there mind.

 

At last some one willing to take a stand...

 

But were you using a projector? smile icon

 

In my example yes he was. The point is you said my hypothetical situation would not happen and this proves it can.

 

If head office had told a duty manger under no circumstances let the DJ plug any of his equipment elsewhere, or risk loosing his job this situation could occure. What if all the plugs in the room are via the limiter to prevent a DJ running his equipment via an extension lead. I have done a room like this...

 

This thread was just a what if and TonyB you seem to have got very heated with your replies... Now my final question for concideration you did the gig but half way through a piece of your equipment would not power up after the most recent power out.. You have back up equipment to hand but what do you do...

 

Also as to the projector bulb if through no fault of the Hotel the power cuts out will your Projector bulb def blow.. I know as some one who has used Barco projectors there is a cycle time for cool down and the bulbs in a Barco are much more than £200 each, but should not blow if power down not used. it can knock time off the life of the bulb though.

 

What if a kid skiping around unplugs your projector not trips over the lead but unplugs it as in Dukesy's example, what then?

 

This is just to debate the possible dilema we could all face and how different people would try to resolve or react to it. It is not a my way is best thread. I learn most from reading peoples point of views on this site and that is why I like to provoke debate. I am sorry if this seems argumentative I do not mean it to....

Edited April 9, 2008 by UKHero

[Dream Catchers 0]

The problem with a projector is not just the lamp.

The excessive heat from the lamp is *blown* by the fan in such a way as it does not hang round where the lamp is. There is a colour wheel and the LCD panel that will be damaged by the residue heat off the lamp if it is not exhausted correctly. There are also parts of the case and boards that can be damaged too.

I already have one dead projector that my son just unplugged and put into the flight case at the end of one of his gigs :dan+ju:

 

Jim

[wendyice 0]

looking at all the replies my p o v is as follows.

i wouldnt do the gig.

i would explain the impossible situation the the clients, explain all the pitfalls that could happen to my gear and how it affect my future income, point out the t&c's and put the ball squarely in the managements court.

 

i would not put my gear at such a risk. 1 blown projector takes all the profit from the gig.

 

i wouldnt be at all worried about not doing the venue again due to aforesaid pettiness. so that wouldnt bother me.

 

would my insurance cover me? probably not as the management has stated the limiter is pro installed and tested, assumption would be i am at fault.

 

no guys, i'd leave in as dignified a way as possible and hope never to set eyes on said manager again.

 

disco + music + dance +party = volume.

 

cant argue with the maths.

 

just an afterthought, if the venue has these so strict limitations how do they get bookings in the first place, surely the previous dj / client was aware and made the problems known????

so in that case there is a deffo case for not doing the gig. i'd go so far as to contact previous client if i could or the previous dj and see what occurred at their do.

Edited April 9, 2008 by wendyice