21st Birthday with a HUGE twist!

[YourBigEvent 0]

Buck Rogers, what do you run the speakers with ?

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

But i only gig all my equipment when we have the touring stuff as I dnt think I could fit 52 malcom hill 2000w speakers in most of the venue.

 

Buck Rogers....

 

This, even as an analogy, is just being silly...give it 48 hours and we'll be back to the 'My d*ck is bigger than yours' brigade. It's totally off topic on this thread and suggests yet another quick 'plug' for yourself. Geeez.

 

Let's cut the crap and trying to impress shall we?, because that sort of stuff doesn't stick well on here. Perhaps you could start posting more in line with the main topic of the forum. Mobile DJ's will never need touring equipment, or 25x 2000W speakers so I fail to see why you keep mentioning 'touring', 'theatrical' and 'your company' on every other post that you make, unless of course it's a subtle part of the free advertising compaign for a company, a subject, of which you have previously been warned twice about. So, I would suggest that a change was in order.

 

So why not start with a clean slate, by telling us about the gigs you did this weekend or last?.

[buck_rogers 0]

Ok last weekend I did a school fete which was just general PA for most of it during the day and announcements and stuff also got to try some new ideas and stuff that hadnt been done before at the school and was a general all round good atmosphere. Then in the evening I did a mates 16th party for him which in my opinion went down quite well as I knew exactly what everyone liked before I even got there. Which was quite good having inside information and knowing waht to play from the word go to keep everyone dancing or a rotation of people. Sunday was another outside gig for a car boot sale this time on the road for a local radio station that we have done stuff for now since we started as I originally started of as a roadie with them as your dj guide suggested. Well that was it for last weekend.

 

 

This weekend unfortuently couldnt have any bookings on saturday as it was my dads 50th birthday and i didnt want him running around doing gigs on his bday also very nice to spend some time as a family as im not usually in the house. Then today was my dads actual party which is about to take place in about an hour teken most of the day to set up and he doesnt know about it yet as its a surprise and he thinks im around a mates. Im a bit nervous though as we have family from all over the world most of whom i havenever met in my life before and I really dont want anything to go wrong.

 

Well thats what i ahve been doing as you requested.

 

Buck

[Mikeh 0]

Hey

 

What gets me here is that if you try to raise a topic about new technology or running more than the norm then you get the talk of dont do it, people wont know etc etc. However I know this, I was simply trying to gain a bit of interest on a form of technology that for the price of 2 albums could in fact help an awful lot of people out there. Using IR for this is not new, its been done before but it has never been reliable enough to warrent its uses, however for a mobile dj it can serve its purpose really well.

 

However, if your really that scared of venturing to the nest step of disco lighting then why bother carrying on reading this post! Back in the old days DJ's used to say that lightscreens where all that they needed and many were reluctant to look at effect lighting, then suddenly BANG lightscreens suddenly became the worst thing and effects became the in thing!.

 

 

At the end of the day your DJ skills ARE the most important aspect BUT why do you have to slate every topic about lights and lighting that involves a bit more than the standard rig! Jealous? (I doubt it), scared, yes this may be true, scared of a new evolution in mobile discos is just one theory behind this.

 

 

Regards

Mike

Without Prejudice

[Gary 0]

Ok Mikeh, I think you're getting two different themes of responses to your original thread. I think I'm right in saying that most of the members reading your thread understand and appreciate that you're using everything which you have at your disposal to make each meticulously planned (by the girls family) step of the event, flow as smoothly as possible. I've certainly got respect for you as an entertainer, AND a solutions provider for doing your best in this situation.

 

The two themes of answers that you're getting are:

 

1) The morals of how the girls family have planned the event.

 

2) The technology of tracking the movements of the key people/person within the field of vision of the web-cams.

 

 

For theme 1, as I posted a couple of days ago, I dont think that the family have considered the emotional/human side of this re-union. However, I didn't think that bride & grooms colour scheme was particularly well thought out at my gig, yesterday evening...Alas...thats out of the hands of us DJ's - we just add whatever flavour we can to the instructions that we're given, and add our own blend of values to the night.

 

My own thoughts of the familes plans are that they've forgotton the popcorn stall, the lion taming act, clowns, stadium seating, ladies selling choc-ices by the fire exits during the interval, and souvenier photos in a folder...ala: theme park Log flume rides.

 

As for theme 2, the technology. I've used the "lucky find" of camcorders picking up IR light to my advantage a few times...eg: testing "suspect" remote controls for emmissions etc by pointing a camcorder at them. I would be concerned that the webcams could be decoyed by other bright lights in the field of vision. EG: someone "in-shot" flicks their cigarette lighter "on" to light a ciggy, or worse still, the lit birthday cake is brought in with all its flaring candles LIT etc.

 

Taking the title of your original thread eg: "21st birthday party with a HUGE twist", the twist was obviously the re-union of father/daughter. However, you've no reason to confuse members replies about the ethics/morals of the situation, with members replies about the prototype technology which you're bringing to the dancefloor.

 

These two topics, individually would easily have been two very justified separate threads in their own rights, with each of the two threads covering the morals and ethics of the families ideas, and the IR technology, respectively.

 

I hope that all goes well for you, and the daughter, re-united father etc on the night, and hope that your IR prototype works well for you, on this, and future occasions.

[Kingy 0]

Sorry Guys, but I CAN NOT see the use of the IR idea to the average DJ. In theatrical productions, yes but DJ, no!

 

Interestingly, due to the nature of the flash from a camera being so wide (spectrum Wise) will it not, at some stage, emit a degree of IR? Would this not disturb the programme. And, dont most Camcorders use IR to find focal distances, again confusing the system?

 

I see many pitfalls, buy a follow spot! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/533.gif

[Mikeh 0]

Hey

 

Yes all these things may show up on the webcameras but this is where the software comes into play. It FOLLOWS the white dot around the camera shot. So if it sees another white dark or bright mark it will just ignore it. Camera flashes are so fast that its very unlikly to pick it up when running a 5 frames a second, however if it does it will just ignore the complete white frame and move on.

 

I will run some basic tests tonight to see if I can find anything that will cause enough interference with the camera software to promote such a problem to the code. The only other thing I really need to work on is the output from the software to the DMX platforms, as obviously it needs to support many applications.

 

In regards to saying this wont be used by Mobile DJ's! I can think of many areas which would benifit from it, not always needed but can be a very nice extra, such as a spot light for karaoke signings? just put the IR's onto the mic and off you go, or even a spot for yourself when you move off into the crowd!. Tbh the IR tech is not good enough for theatrical work hence why Iam looking at mobile DJ's and small amateur drama clubs.

 

Anyway, Ill get back to you lot when Ive run some final tests through.

 

 

Cheers

Mike

[Gary 0]

The technology side of this thread, definately has its potential, especially if some kind of range finding can be built into the software, perhaps by calcuating how much/little a gap there "appears to be" between two IR dots, placed a known distance away from each other on the "target". Eg. if the target is 2ft away from the webcam, the ir dots on the target will appear say, 200 pixels apart. However, if the target is 20ft away, the ir dots will appear closer together, perhaps only 30 pixels apart.

 

Perhaps a webcam 10ft in front of the disco, looking across the dancefloor would enable an additional perspective calculation to be acheived.

[Kingy 0]

I agree, but again I ask, What is wrong with using a follow spot. It appears toomuch trouble for me. I would not even bother about it due to the infrequency of use & having to carry all the other stuff about. Its undoubtably a nice idea and if it works, fine, but its not for me.

 

Christ, many many Dj's dont have inttelligent lighting let alone this complexity of kit!

 

PS I have it from a reliable source that Passive IR sensors in an alarm are constantly working, whether or not the alarm is active, so they may be another source of interference. If the cameras are going to be picking up one dot, what happens when it goes out of view ( dancing etc?) would they cameras not then scan for an alternative diode?

 

All sorts of confused now............................................... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/533.gif

[ChrisPointon 0]

Okay, i've been resisting getting into a technical discussion so far, but there does seem to be some confusion over IR and how it works, hopefully this will clear up a few 'rumours' and give another suggestion.

 

 

I think the effect that IR intereference will have on the application depends whether the kit uses an encoded signal, and how strong the superfluous IR signals are. By far, the most reliable way of doing this would be to use MPT level licence free radio signals, and you can often pick these up in kit form from most hobbyist suppliers.

 

The advantage of using RF over IR is obvious if you have ever used a IR Mouse or Keyboard on your PC http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif . Namely that RF is not dictated to by line of sight, obstructions, Halogen lamp or Daylight emissions or any other source of light, heat or IR. Remember that all visible light sources contain varying amounts of IR. If were to add up the amount of equipment in the room where I'm sitting now, which *might* create havoc for IR systems, I would lose interest beyond 30!.

 

Since RF Signals can be encoded to ignore other sources on the same frequency by way of DIP switches of cutting tracks at PCB level, then it can be used with almost zero worry that the guy next door will activate it with his car remote fob http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif and your follow spot goes haywire as a result. It also allows you to use 2, 4, 8 or 16 seperate receivers from the same control units, whilst using a single carrier signal.

 

So when it comes to reliability, and if I was considering using this application week in week out, then RF would be something that I would be investing in. You may be lucky and have some form of encoding on your IR controls, and although this wont protect you from strong or direct sources of IR emissions it will be more reliable than a raw IR carrier.

 

Your main problem with IR will indeed be the security detectors since they do have a very wide coverage angle by default. As Kingy pointed out, it is only the control panels which are disarmed and the sensor remains active. You can often see this by the LED on the detector operating, and the low click of the internal relay. So, try and cover these up before you start.

 

Also consider the low light and Red-Eye enhancers on Digital Cameras since these transmit a very high content of both visible and invisible IR and by default they cover a wide area - thats how they work.

 

So RF is more expensive, and may need you to use your DIY and Electronics Skills, but is far the most reliable way of controlling a remote system - whatever the application if long term or frequent use is your intention. IR can work, but it is also potentially flawed - which is one of the main reasons why security manufacturers are moving away from (P)IR detectors for movement sensing and into the realms of microwave detectors.

[BigBen 0]

Wow, this has to be one of the best posts ever!!

 

Firstly Mike, you told us about the emotional side of the party - that is sheer drama. Along with the web cams, take a couple of camcorders because there has to be a Jeremy Beadle moment at some stage of the night.

 

Then you mention the technology. To most of us, we carry intelligent effects along with a controller and that suffices. It takes us 20 minutes to get our light show sorted - we can't be bothered with a 'prototype webcam/ir' lighting device. Far too complex and time consuming with little reward.

 

However, you are a lighting professional and as such, you are determined to give a great show. Well, for what it's worth, as long as the organisers are in agreement, it sounds perfect. Programmed lighting to a fave song, then lighting that tracks movement sounds a great idea. I like the idea of possible uses whereby the DJ can wander around the room with a radio mic and the spotlight follows him - that would look incredibly professional. (You could also put some IR transmitters on your keys - then, just power up your spotlight when you lose them!)

 

My caveat, however, is that you are able to turn the lights off the "stars" of the show immediately, should you need to. You'll need the ambient, early night lighting on straight away. Alternatively, she may pass out and you'll have to kill the whole show and have the room lights on until she's recovered.

 

It's nights like these that "character build".

 

However, the flip side to most comments is that everything goes well. Assuming they meet, hug, cry, watch your laser message (which sounds a bit too cheesy to me) I think they deserve a moment in darkness. Do you have the ability to dim the lights on the stars of the show and move bright white lights into the audiences faces? Far from ideal, but it gives the special couple a moment 'alone'. I also think a good old romantic mirrorball would look amazing. How about the Dad walking out of smoke (think Stars in their Eyes)?

 

I've gone a bit Hollywood, haven't I?

 

I wish you well and look forward to you patenting the "MikeH IR Spot Tracker"

[Kingy 0]

Any developments on this yet???

 

I thinbk we would all be interested to know. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Mikeh 0]

Hey

 

Well the gigs closing in fast, Saturday 2nd October to be exact. I will be back to post an update of how it goes, why oh why do I take on gigs like this. lol

 

Also, why Iam here

 

QUOTE

Far too complex and time consuming with little reward.

 

How? its simple as plug in webcam to USB, plug light into USB DMX controller, open the proggy and select the Webcam from the list. Once done you can click the on/off button to start stop IR tracking. 5 mins to setup, quick and easy. However the software Ive made cant be made commercial atm as it doesnt auto detect room/light positions etc, so its made just for this one venue atm. Oh well.

 

Ill keep you informed!

 

 

Cyas

Mike

[YourBigEvent 0]

Still seems a lot of hassle and cost for little reward

 

Only my opinion though

[joe 0]

QUOTE (ADS Entertainments @ Sep 30 2004, 07:05 AM)

Still seems a lot of hassle and cost for little reward

Yeah it does seem a lot of hassle to go to for one gig, but I think that it will be very impressive if it all works as it should on the night http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/cool.gif

[Kingy 0]

Has this gig taken place Mikeh? How did it go?

[YourBigEvent 0]

The gig was last Saturday.........

[pareshj 0]

Any News Mike, What happened, did you pull it off or did you just opt for sound to light mode?

[jackcu 0]

Damn - just read this entire thread and there's no punchline http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sad.gif

[ollygeorge 0]

QUOTE

Damn - just read this entire thread and there's no punchline

 

 

Me too!!! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/huh.gif

[AJS Mobile Disco 0]

Come on tell us what happened this is better than any soap http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/071.gif

Anne

[jackcu 0]

Maybe it all went Pete Tong and no-one lived to tell the tale http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/sad.gif

[partychris 0]

Has he posted since?? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif has he been done over by a bunch of flowers (hiding a gun?) http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/hiding.gif

[cj_65 0]

I know nobody wants to hear this but I'm not convinced the technology will

work. I've programmed using both general purpose IR transmitters (such

as remote controls) and IrDA. The arc generated by a general purpose

IR device is too wide to pinpoint an individual - can be 120 degrees - so

over 20 meters or more the area concerned would be huge - too tired to

do the math.

 

The range of a more localised IrDA device is too limited to track reliably.

Also, as some people have pointed out the ambient light conditions

will have a huge effect on the reliability if you could get the basic

technology to work.

 

Olivetti made a system for 3D tracking based on ultrasound called something

like the 'sonic bat' and there are several radio systems but no accurate IR

implementations.

 

(By the way, we were using the technology to develop a human version of

PacMan for your mobile phone - IR transmitters updated the position of your

friends on the phone and gave you 'treasure' to collect before your friends

ate you - we called a halt when a couple of test users ended up with serious

injuries from chasing their friends 8(

 

All the best, Chris.

 

(Of course, I could be horribly wrong and the technology might all have worked

out fine - if so then call a patent lawyer?)

[Gary 0]

Its a guess....but.... if the IR light source on the "target" person, could be set to flash at a certain speed eg: 10 flashes per second, and the software told only to look for an IR light source thats flashing at that speed, then the ambient lighting would be ignored by the software.

 

Regardless of how the hardware performed, I'm keen to find out how the whole "re-union" part of the function went.