MobileBeat DJ show in Las Vegas

[Award Entertainment 0]

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon)

It's amazing the amount of people who publically advertise a desire to help, but usually only when it comes at a price - i.e a membership subscription, return publicity or recruitment drive. For those who do want to help and pass on their experience and advice then there are questions posted here everyday from relative newcomers, on a wide and varied number of subjects who are desperate to go the right way about starting out in business or how to get established or obtain experience, and often those who have previously and publically professed a 'desire to help' are usually absent from those members who do take the time to reply and offer their advice.

These are good points and I feel obliged to answer from my perspective. I try to scour the threads to find questions that I feel I can help with given my experience. I don't do this with any desire to get anyone here subscribed to anything. It's free advice, born from a wish to give something back to the industry and raise the bar generally so we might one day be seen as a respectable career choice.

 

I often don't answer questions by newbies here such as "I've got £120 to spend on a new CD player, what's the best one to get?" because plenty of local guys with knowledge of your product prices can help with that and I get a fair few enquiries like that here in New Zealand from New Zealand newbie DJs. Believe me, I do my share of helping out the new crew here!

 

My speciality is selling a high-end DJ and MC service to a discerning client. My assistance is best used helping the large majority of experienced DJs (who have reached a plateau in their business) take the next step up if they want to.

 

QUOTE (Gary)

I've no doubt that an American marketing course could teach Americans how to sell their services to Americans.  I doubt, however that many, if any of those philosophies would be practical and/or publically acceptable over here.

With all due respect Gary, most of the concepts I've learned from my American colleagues are universal truths. They are not market specific and they are not geographically critical. There are some things (country music, line dancing, etc) that have little bearing on what I do in New Zealand, or what you do in England, but the wealth of knowledge that IS relative to me is huge.

 

 

I have booked my tickets to the show in Las Vegas, I've reserved the Hotel room and I simply can't wait to see the latest ideas in DJ and KJ hardware, software and marketing concepts. I'd love to meet up with a few other 'foreigners' there, so if any of you are going, feel free to join Derek & I for a cold beer!

[transeurope 0]

This is one thread I thought I would not be contributing to!

 

I am amazed at the direction it has taken though...so I find myself contributing!!...and I don't know where to start.

 

Help...Paid/Unpaid When I contribute to web forums on a topic that I consider myself expert, a part of it is pride, a part of it is a desire to contribute to the professionalism of the industry, and a part of it is to test my own knowledge. I have to say this is an important motivation. It is what academics call "peer review".

 

Also, I have a strong desire not to go back to the days were middle-aged men in wool jumpers sold awful twindecks with RT12Ds in them. It is important to stimulate demand for the products you consider important and to criticise the products you find lacking or overpriced. If everyone is happy with that, it will be difficult to buy a pair of 1210s or TTX. Now we have a relatively competitive product market. You no longer have to plead with some jerk to "order in" a set of Technics (which will come when he decides to pay his wholesaler).

 

Additionally, I can understand why people who have tested, thorough, expert, value-adding advice charge for their services. They do no need to stimulate demand for a product. They do not need to establish if their method works.

 

Finally, we come to the category of advice that you know works for you, but are unsure of its universal applicability. Frequently when you post this on the net it is only common sense that if you are not sure that it works for others you try to be as thorough as possible in explaining your background and how you came across an issue and what resources you drew on to solve it. My experience here is that this frequently gets turned into a game of football, with your post as the leather bladder. I can only assume that professional advice-givers want to get paid before they go through this Lord Of The Flies trial-by-ordeal.

 

[/b]Origin of Advice I think about the best thing that I can say here is that both the UK and the US feel they have a special relationship. Germany and the US feel they have an, er, less special relationship. It is a fact that the both countries are filled with professional DJs that study their counterparts closely for ideas. If it works on that level, then I cannot imagine it would not work on the Anglo-rooted countries.

 

One thing that is very noticeable. US and German DJs commit vast amounts of time and money to the industry compared to their Anglo-heritage country counterparts. UK DJs seem to be afraid to do this. The same applies for shops and manufacturers rooted in the UK.

 

I think this should change. It has changed in Ireland. Everyone is making more money as a result. Rewards out = effort in. It may not be a perfect equation, but there is a lot of truth in it.

 

Kind Regards

[Dukesy 0]

Back on topic... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/whistling.gif

 

Will not be going to Mobile Beat 06 or even Plasa 05.

 

I want to be a Lumberjack...... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/toot.gif

[stevie 0]

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/042.gif

 

 

Me nither

 

Agree with Chris tho http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/hide.gif

 

[mikeee 0]

On the point of greed - I think not.

 

Just sat here and done some maths.

 

I started in 1970, I as a beginner was getting £15 a night, the "pro" DJ's were getting £25.00 a night, so as we are all pro's, I thought I would work out what the average pro should be getting now. I kept the maths simply, I just added 10%per year and in 2005 the "Average" pro DJ should be charging £702.56. But as we know interest rates are not the steady, and please remember these rates we have today have not been with us long, I can remember mortgages up in the 15%, Loans at 40%+ for many years. I think if you worked it out at 18% you would be nearer the correct figure - and no I haven't.

 

Another rule of thumb for setting DJ prices back in the 70's was, a Saturday fee should equal the average weekly wage for the area, this was how the pro's worked it out. This was great up to the early mid 80's, when with the change in Music all the youngsters piled in to the business and prices went down, and have been kept artifically lower ever since.

 

One fact I can tell you, is in 1990 / 1991 I had a slighty run in with the Inland Revenue, now they have a book that lists ever occupation with an average annual income listed next to it. The book for 90 / 91 showed the humble DJ on an average income of ..........................£59,000. To say i was gob smacked when I saw it in black and white would be an understatement.

 

So 1990 to 2005 at 10% increase comes to £246,457.55 per annum, or £4,739.57 a week or £677.08 a night.

 

No wonder the inland revenue hit DJ's, they think we are all on the fiddle.

[Dukesy 0]

Not wishing to stir things up at all..... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/rolleyes.gif

For those interested in our fellow DJs across the pond...here is a link to a website.

 

Not wishing to open up a debate on what this company provides - here is a 'window' to peruse. leave it at that for the moment:

 

A 'top' Chicago based (US) Mobile DJ 'Agency' (Established 1965) charges $600 (£332.97) up to 5 hours entertainment or $700 (£388.54) for events in downtown Chicago.

 

Additional hours are @ $100 per hour / carrying gear upstairs, etc (£55.50)

 

Anyway, don't take my word for it. READ IT!!!

The company's FAQ can be read here!

[Eskie 0]

Dan, have you got a fever or something http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/wacko.gif

I can't see the relevance in that link whatsoever http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/533.gif just because ONE company in the whole of the USA charges that amount it's hardly a useful yardstick is it? fair enough if you'd compared a few different companies and in a few different areas but to just pick one company seems completely pointless, it doesn't really tell us anything apart from that one company charges that amount!

Someone could just as easily have pasted a link to one of the US DJs that charge US$2,000 per gig but it would have been equally misleading.

[Derekpen 0]

The link to the US DJ company just reinforces what I have been saying all along.

 

They have the same situation over there as we do over here. There is very little difference between what they do and what we do, with the possible exception of Weddings.

 

BTW Richard, i think Chris's comments were directed more toward me rather than you.

 

I prefer to respond to direct calls for help or advice, usually by PM, telephone call or in person.

 

I find forums rather restrictive.

 

There are a number of guys locally and nationally that are currently benefiting from my experience and shared knowledge of marketing techniques aquired on my many visits to the US. They just don't visit forums.

 

Back on topic.

 

I'll be there. a couple of fellow NADJ members will be with me and Eddie Short has promised to make the trip. The info is available and anyone curious enough to want to know more about it can PM me.

 

 

[ian 0]

QUOTE (mikeee @ Aug 25 2005, 01:18 AM)

I started in 1970, I as a beginner was getting £15 a night, the "pro" DJ's were getting £25.00 a night, so as we are all pro's, I thought I would work out what the average pro should be getting now. I kept the maths simply, I just added 10%per year and in 2005 the "Average" pro DJ should be charging £702.56. But as we know interest rates are not the steady, and please remember these rates we have today have not been with us long, I can remember mortgages up in the 15%, Loans at 40%+ for many years. I think if you worked it out at 18% you would be nearer the correct figure - and no I haven't.

 

Being a web geeky sort of person, I've just checked an online tool for this sort of information eh.net/hmit/ukcompare/ and its figures are a bit lower. I assumed a price of £25 in 1971 and calculated what it was worth in 2002 (the last year the calculator goes to). The results ranged from £217.22 (calculated using the RPI) to £450.48 (using the GDP).

 

QUOTE (mikeee @ Aug 25 2005, 01:18 AM)

One fact I can tell you, is in 1990 / 1991 I had a slighty run in with the Inland Revenue, now they have a book that lists ever occupation with an average annual income listed next to it. The book for 90 / 91 showed the humble DJ on an average income of ..........................£59,000. To say i was gob smacked when I saw it in black and white would be an understatement. So 1990 to 2005 at 10% increase comes to £246,457.55 per annum, or £4,739.57 a week or £677.08 a night. No wonder the inland revenue hit DJ's, they think we are all on the fiddle.

 

Presumeably these figures are skewed by the high-end DJs (earning a few thousand a gig) and by the fact that many of the cheapest DJs are probably not declaring.

[mikeee 0]

Dan, I haven't looked at the site, but assuming they do the same as all others, 5 hours is the whole thing, from the arrival at the venue, the receiving line, the meal, the speeches etc etc. If we followed the same format we would be working from between 2 and 4.00pm to 12.00am, which is 8 to 10 hours.

 

I would say the average price for a good disco in the states is in the region of $150 an hour (about £86 / hr) + it's a lot cheaper to live out there, ok petrol has had a hike, $2.00 a gallon (about £1.15p / gallon). Working on petrol prices, we are paying about 90p a litre, which is £4.05p a gallon, which is about 3.5 times more expensive than over the water, so multiply their hourly rate by 3.5 and that should give us an un-scientific figure of £301.00 per hour. Now who charges that???

 

Ian, could have donewith that site last night, but as I said, I took the figure then added 10% per year to 2005. To 2002, my figure came up with £527.84, so over 32 years there's a £77.00 diference, not bad for a pen and paper job.

 

The Inland Revenue figures were listed as "Mobile Disc Jockeys".

 

The only real way to evaluate things are to work out what everybody else in the service industry charges.

Edited August 25, 2005 by mikeee

[Award Entertainment 0]

I have to say that going to the Mobile Beat show for me is more about networking and learning how to refine and advance my abilities as a mobile DJ, a professional Master of Ceremonies (Toastmaster) and as a marketer. I also hope to learn more about what technological advances are happening in the market and what is really delighting clients as far as service goes.

 

If learning these things helps me raise my rates and get the average DJ having to improve what he does here in NZ, then that's a bonus for me. It's not all about price. Many of the DJs I'll be meeting charge between US$2000 and $3000 for a wedding. Many others are around US$400. Guess who I'll be pumping for information on marketing a quality service the most?

[Gary 0]

Dan, I took a look at that site you linked to - interesting.

 

Its actually a very good example of what might look like good marketing to one person might come across as totally off-putting and an instant booking-killer, to others

 

For example:

 

We're going to have a live dance band, in addition to a Chicago DJ. Is that a problem for you?

Yes. A big one. Live bands introduce the element of ego into a party. While your

>Disco company name

 

This comes across that the person writing the FAQs for the site has a major axe-to-grind/chip-on-shoulder about bands (a situation which most of us here on DJU deal with "live" whenever the situation arises). It also shows that the author of the FAQs has no morals or ethics preventing them from making a scathing attack on all, any and every band in the area. OK, 10 out of 10 for getting it off his chest, but minus several dozen points for appearing (as THE public facing face of his company) to be someone that you'd like to spend time talking to.

 

QUOTE

Do you have a page with all your Chicago DJs' pictures, so we can pick our DJ? No.  You didn't pick you doctor on looks, and picking a professional DJ is no different.

 

You can almost visualise the wagging finger and the threat of being made to stand facing the corner for 10 minutes, cant you. Whether the DJ has nice eyes obviously has NO bearing on how good or bad they will perform at your function (although a dishy single DJ might get more young ladies distracting him from the job in hand than an ugly one, I s'pose)...but either way, what a slap-in-the-face way of getting a point across.

 

 

We're just looking for the cheapest price. Do you give discounts?

Rarely. If you're shopping for a price instead of a DJ, we'd rather not have you as a client. If you think the cheapest DJ is a good value, you have to start by assuming (incorrectly) that all DJs are equally good. Unfortunately, most people who "go cheap," and have a nightmare experience with their DJ, end up assuming (also incorrectly) that all DJs are equally bad.

 

There are a few DJ companies in Chicagoland -- two in particular -- who get all their clients by offering dirt-cheap prices. And those clients learn too late just how awful a cheap DJ can be. Do your homework. Ask a DJ company to provide you with the names and phone numbers of its 30 most recent clients. If it refuses, RUN! Remember, if your DJ is bad, he's the only thing your guests will remember about your party, and all your careful planning will go to waste.

 

A sales/marketing sandwich, (bad layer/good layer) terrible start "If you're....we'd rather not have you as a client...", ok middle bit/filling to the sandwich..."Most people who go cheap...nightmare..."...then again the name-calling, axe to grind ending of "There are a few DJ companies / -- two in particular -- who get all their clients by offering dirt-cheap prices"... I wouldnt want to speak to someone who's got that much negativity. Again, as above, its perhaps a worthwhile point that the author of the FAQ's is trying to get across, but what a terrible (in my opinion) way of doing it...by alienating nearby companies.

 

 

We don't have Internet access. Can we still hire you?

Frankly, no. Our completely interactive web site lets you research your DJ (online video clip, performance schedule, telephone references), check our availabilty, hire us (online service agreement), pay us (online credit card processing), and direct us on exactly how you'd like your event to proceed (online party itinerary, wedding party roster, interactive music library). By using the web to share and receive information, you're able to hire your DJ with confidence without holding 5 or 6 hours of meetings, searching through books of songs, and filling out all your paperwork in longhand.

 

Other DJ companies that don't have our technology must spend their time in those meetings, too. That's why so many of them charge twice as much as we do. It's all wasted time that doesn't contribute anything to the quality of your DJ's performance. If you hired us, and did it all the hard way, as they do, we'd have to charge you twice as much, too. While we're always available for a face-to-face meeting, holding multiple meetings with each client is just not an efficient or productive way to do business. So we cater only to Internet-connected clients.

 

Yikes...he's moved from mere sandwiches good bit/bad bit information, to fully mixed cake of negative ingredients. Basics marketing and sales is built upon the premise that the more "no's" a customer, or potential customer sees, reads, hears or says, the less likely they are to "go for" that product or service. The whole statement from the DJ company rejecting human-to-human contact prior to the event is terrible in itself, but again stabbing ALL companies who do it the "personal" way, cant make anyone want to talk to him anyway.

 

oh and as for....

 

What is your policy on tipping?

Are you kidding? We love it! It's an excellent way to reward a DJ who goes above and beyond, to make your party special (anything from $50 to $200 is appropriate). We don't put out a "tip jar," because it's tasteless. And we don't accept tips from your guests to play specific songs, because those songs may not be appropriate for your party. Tipping your DJ, if you choose, is your responsibility. It's just more professional that way.

 

[ChrisPointon 0]

Is this for real or a spoof?.

 

 

[ian 0]

A very interesting analysis, Gary.

 

I think it does show some of the cultural differences between US and UK (for example, the US is a tipping-oriented culture whereas the UK isn't). But I think it is still a discussion of opinions, rather than facts. There are two major points which make this a less than optimal discussion:

• We don't know how successful this DJ is - it might be that the points you are raising as issues in the UK are just as big a problem in the US and this site fails over there too.
• If the DJ is successful, then the question is not whether we think the same approach would work or fail over here, but what happens when we actually try it.

Those two issues aside, I don't think that anyone is saying to adopt exactly what others are doing in the US, but to look at what they are doing differently and see why they are doing it and how it can be adapted for use over here.

 

There looks like several useful things to take from the things you've highlighted:

• Don't be afraid to say "no" - there are several places where the DJ says no in the stuff you highlight (no to working with bands, no to discounts, no to "conventional" booking). This is actually in everybody's interest - you aren't wasting your time with a booking which you're unhappy with, the client isn't wasting their time talking to you. It frees you up to concentrate on more profitable discussions.
• Online booking - again, an issue of optimising your time. If a website can take care of routine tasks, why not go that way? It leaves you free to concentrate on other things. If you don't want to be as harsh as the example site (and only accept online bookings), why not impose a surcharge for non-online bookings, to cover the additional time involved for you. That's what many other companies do - like airlines.
• Not working with a band - you might not agree with the way the site states their opposition to bands, but it's worth thinking about the principle for a while. What would happen if you imposed a "no band" policy? Would you lose work? Would you be able to charge more (the extra hours you are DJ-ing instead of a band playing)? You might not want to be as aggressive about it as this site, but maybe it's worth commenting on. People think you have to have a band, just because other people do, make them think about that precept - for example, I often get comments that people would rather dance to a recording of a track by a famous band, than a live band playing a (usually inferior) cover version of the same track.
• Commenting on cheaper competitors - I'm sure I saw something like this on a website belonging to someone in this forum. Not as blunt as stated in the US site, but again the principle is applicable in the UK (remember that in the US it's much more acceptable to criticise your competitors - for example Coca-Cola adds are allowed to explicitly criticise Pepsi Cola, rather than use the "other leading cola" type of language we use here).
• Tipping - this part is just setting out ground rules. The US is a tipping culture, which the UK isn't, so a discussion on what you can do (tip the DJ if you've had a good night) and what you can't do (tip the DJ to play specific tracks) is quite reasonable. In the UK, perhaps a similar paragraph might be suitable to discuss buying the DJ drinks - our policy is that the DJ never accepts drinks ... or ... our policy is that the DJ only accepts non-alcoholic drinks ... or ... our policy is that the DJ will only drink Tequila in half pint glasses.

So despite not being able to use this as is, I think it is worthwhile looking at the underlying principles and seeing if they are applicable in the UK.

[Dukesy 0]

Eskie, I'll take your comment on board along with the rest of the others while I'm having my brow tendered with a flannel! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/laugh.gif

 

Interesting points Mikeee and ian!

 

When a subject is discussed, points of reference will be raised and may need to be examined.

 

Due to our own forum rules, we can not link directly to the Mobile Beat (Magazine) site but of course we can 'outline' its varied points. It may reflect a lot of things but upon online inspection, it appeared to market what it can sell to DJs who may need audio / visual stimuli in the form of a video, CD or book written by DJs for DJs. Nothing wrong in that but it is restrictive - it is in the US for example. Maybe this forum should take a few tips and start charging for the advice / knowledgebase! LOL! Introtroduce a £5 per year subscription...how many would run to the hills! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/laugh.gif

 

However, as references to our fellow Mobile DJs across the pond are made, no one has actually spoken their corner and their perspective.

 

Out of the thousands of DJ sites that advertise their business, this example website represents seven professional DJs under 'one roof'.

 

The marketing strategy adopted is based on the experience the company has over there and yes, there are simularities to ours over here, but like for so many of us, it appears to be 'demographic'.

 

I'm not questioning the practice of the company, merely hi-lighting the transpareny of the company / site and what it charges over there.

 

The relevancy of all this has partly been reflected in the posted comments already.

 

This one website is interesting.

It covers a lot of what has been discussed in this topic thread (and countless others) and outlines one US company's marketing strategy, its approach towards Master of Ceremonies (Toastmaster) individuals ability to DJ, equipment used etc., and prices.

 

I could not find any reference on the website for the company being a member of a DJ association or major 'body' such as the ADJA, however, that does not mean it is not!

 

Whilst only one website had been exampled does not mean that other websites in the US and Germany were not going to be. However, I found it a little difficult to find a similar Mobile DJ service in Germany. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif

 

The general 'European' DJs I found tend to be specific genre entertainers such as Techno, Electro, House, Trance, Underground, DnB, Garage or RnB, etc.

Every one a potential Paul Van Dyke or Carl Cox, etc.

 

Further site Perusal

California based Mobile DJ Service (Member of ADJA)

Another California Mobile DJ Service

Also ...different!

Los Angeles Based Mobile DJ Service

Edited August 25, 2005 by discodirect

[mikeee 0]

Dan, have you got to much time on your hands???? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/whistling.gif

 

Actually, you are now doing, what I did in the mid 90's. I sifted my way through about 300 sites, and "lifted" some good stuff, made notes to myself not to do the bad bits.

[Dukesy 0]

QUOTE

Dan, have you got to much time on your hands????

 

Too much time?! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/laugh.gif I don't sleep!

 

QUOTE

Actually, you are now doing, what I did in the mid 90's. I sifted my way through about 300 sites, and "lifted" some good stuff, made notes to myself not to do the bad bits.

 

Time you caught up then in the mid 00's!!! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/071.gif

 

Actually, I don't sift the DJ associated style websites. Found these sites within a few clicks of an American DJ listing.

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/smile.gif

[Award Entertainment 0]

I think that as Derek P mentioned earlier, the networking with other industry professionals is absolutely invaluable and I look forward to swapping ideas with people from a totally different market. The key benefit would be to ascertain what I could add to my show and my marketing that hasn't been seen here in my market. I already lead the field in my region for wedding entertainment in many ways and it's because of this stretching of the DJ knowledge 'gene pool' that I've been able to achieve this.

 

Consider this:

 

 

In offering your DJ service, you naturally attempt to look at what others in your market are doing and try to find ways to do it better, right? http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/bigstar.gif

 

So.... what if the original model that everyone is trying to improve on was flawed, or had major limitations? Imagine if you could start adding fresh, new ideas, concepts, features and start expanding beyond the realms of what you currently consider to be a great DJ service? Let's face it- other than equipment innovations, the actual DJ business hasn't really evolved much since 1970 has it? I guarantee you that mine has evolved more in the last 5 years than it did in the previous 13 years and it's due largely to external influences and networking.

 

I for one can't wait!! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/ranting.gif

[YourBigEvent 0]

QUOTE

In offering your DJ service, you naturally attempt to look at what others in your market are doing and try to find ways to do it better, right?

 

WRONG !!!

 

 

I don't look at others to see what they are doing, I think of original things myself and go and do it, and let the others find ways of catching me up, by which time I have thought of the next thing, so I am always one step ahead.

 

Big headed - No, Confident - Yes !!

[Award Entertainment 0]

That's a good way to be Andy, although wouldn't it be a good idea to seek ideas from outside your market to help take you in directions you've never thought of before? After all, we don't know how much we don't yet know....

[Award Entertainment 0]

OMG! My wife I I are leaving for America on Tuesday!!! Beginning to get just a little bit excited. We're staying right by Disneyland and we'll do two days there, 1 at Universal Studios, 1 just checking out Los Angeles. We then are renting a 2005 Mustang convertible and driving down to join Peter Merry & his wife Lisa for lunch before driving out in convoy with a few other LA DJs to Las Vegas, Nevada. Mobile Beat is a huge 3 day convention and I hope to come back brimming with new ideas and concepts to start to adapt to my local market.

 

Might even treat myself to a little bit of gear if the voltage is right.... http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif