Wedding Charges

[Paul Smith 0]

Sooooooo we're back to prices again.........and just at the time when I am adjusting mine.

 

This year has been particularly quiet so far and I have just spent a while looking through my diary and analysing the jobs I didn't get (important) which have all come under the category of small party/wedding (with 2 exceptions). So I've come to the conclusion that for these events I'm too dear - solution I'm putting together another 'small event' package - minimum equipment to shorten set-up & break down times (still at the planning stage but I'm looking at 15 mins up & 10 down max) and bookings only taken within 8 weeks of event (leaving the date free for more lucrative bookings first). I'll keep you posted on how this works out.

 

On to wedding prices, well this area of the UK isn't exactly Hollywood (although we do have a Holywood - pronounced Hollywood!!) and there are DJs going out for £80 a night. I've just done a quick calculation by adding up the total for my next 20 weddings and dividing by 20 (I just knew that degree would come in useful one day) and I've come up with a figure of £241.25 http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/wacko.gif

 

The price range is between £180 and £340 and reflects different set-ups/hours/karaoke etc but that average is over £100 more than my current cheapest price of £135 and at the time of booking they had the choice of this as a starting point.

 

Conclusion - well I'm not the best salesman in the west (although improvement has been made) and this isn't a particularly affluent area. Many of those who have booked have never seen me before so it could have something to do with the fact that certainly for weddings they want the best they can afford so by offering different packages they can select the one that suits their budget.

 

Disco Dan I take it from your post that you were thinking of REDUCING your prices and Kingy if you are successfully selling your wares to 9/10 then I think you have a significant margin here to increase your prices. This will reduce the take up rate but should give you more money overall.

 

That's my £241.25 worth. It's certainly a popular subject you just have to look at the viewing figures whenever topics like this are started.

 

PaulS

 

[Award Entertainment 0]

QUOTE (kazzachi @ Apr 2 2004, 12:04 AM)

It really doesnt matter what books you read... if your client has a budget, then no amount of flashy marketing will get them to pay a higher fee.  For me, I would rather work 3/4 times per week and earn a good living than wait to get the highest paying gigs and work less often.  The more I work, the more work I get, and any good dj doesnt have to read a book to tell them how to increase their business potential!

Fair enough. If you believe that you can't possibly learn more, then that's your reality. Believe me, I used to think the exact same way as you on this issue, but I'm so pleased I invested a few dollars and discovered that my marketing was WAY off target and somewhat naiive. The older I get, the less I know!

 

QUOTE (kazzachi @ Apr 2 2004, 12:04 AM)

Plus.... if your charges are high... why do you need to cut them by 50% for those winter months?

That's a reasonable question and I was waiting for someone to ask it. People here (generally) only get married in Winter for three reasons.

 

1. For the scenery such as snow capped mountain ranges.

2. Because the venue or wedding professionals they want are booked out for up to 18 months.

3. Because weddings (just like travel) tend to be cheaper off peak.

 

I've got a Winter residency at a Ski Lodge 4 hours drive from my home, which I play every 2nd Saturday, but it's a lifestyle and leisure choice rather than a financial choice. I've been the DJ there for 11 years now. My wife currently works between 1 and 2 shifts a week as a NeoNatal Intensive Care Nurse and we've got a house and mortgage which is stretching us financially a bit (asset rich, cash poor!). The discounted Winter price is a trial and one that's a bit of a gamble as I'm worried that it might erode my market positioning for Summer functions. At NZ$600, I'm still the most expensive in town over Winter, so I'll monitor it very carefully and keep you posted.

 

Thanks for your interest.

[mikeee 0]

Holywood, I now it well, had a "mishap" on the A13, and had to pay a visit to the nick in Holywood, ah! they were the days.

 

Back to bis.

Richard, another Mark Farrell convert, there was a chap here last year called Derek, how was 110% a MF convert.

 

I was a mod on a US chat board back in 97 / 98, thats where I learnt to put my prices up, Mark isn't doing anything new, but he has got a "Good Sales Technique", plus being from the Bay Area, he was on good money to start with, I'm not knocking him, in fact I take my hat off to him, but he has certainly got "The Need" sorted out. My mentors (if you like) were Sid Vanderpool and Glenn Miller of DJ Chat. Sid also runs Party Pro's, and the work i got from that site during 2000 / 2001 was unbelievable, and of course the increased income.

 

We brits have a problem, we are scared of money. Somebody once said we are a nation of small shop keepers, oh how true, we just don't know how to turn that in to a supermarket. In real terms with the UK cost of living we should be charging at least £1,500 a night, but as we are scared of asking for money, it isn't going to happen.

It stems back to the class system, KNOW YOUR PLACE, you are a worker, and you will work 9d 3 farthings. But the times are changing, slowly.

 

Anyway, down here in Surrey

 

A Pint £2.80

3 bed semi £250,000

Gas £120 (qtr)

Elec £90 (qtr)

Water £210 (yr)

petrol 77p / litre

Average wedding £17,500 (and the dj gets how much)

Bonking the neighbours wife - Priceless

[mikeee 0]

OH i forgot Coucil Tax £1,482.24p

 

If we get our new house that will jump to £1,822

 

[kazzachi 0]

Richard... are you saying that weddings in winter in nz are cheaper? Whether you marry in January or December here, the prices tend to be the same (as far as I know - in the hotels I work for etc)... By reducing your prices by 50% during winter months would, in my opinion, be a totally negative marketing issue. Lets say, you do a wedding for a client in the winter, and one of their mates wants to get married in the summer, how are you gonna justify hiking your price up by 50%? You say that you charge far more than the next dj... but if you are paid your experience, knowledge (which must be your marketing pitch) then your strategy gets blown out of the water. If you are paid your worth, people will pay that price no matter what the season? You are not doing any less work as a dj... so dropping 50% off your fee doesnt make any sense to me at all. I charge the same rate whether my client books for sunday/saturday/wednesday... no matter summer or winter! In short, if you have to drop your prices to get work, then possibly you are charging too much but picking up work due to the high demand in peak wedding season? I am sure Mikeee will back me on this... I doubt very much that he lowers his price on any occasion for his professional service! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/533.gif

Edited April 1, 2004 by kazzachi

[mikeee 0]

Absolutly Kazz, a price is a price. The only "adjustments" I make is if some one rings up for a date within two weeks of the function and I'm not working, then I will offer a discount, but that is the only concession i make. Weddings are now an All Year Round event, so seasonal adjustment should not be needed.

Richard, have you done part II of "Getting What You Worth"??

 

[Ian Stewart 0]

I think that Richard was telling us the situation in his country, if it works for him fine, for all we know the whole wedding market may be different to the UK

[Gary 0]

I guess we're lucky here (UK) having the main wedding season avoid the Christmas Dinner Dance Season.

 

DJ's must be pretty scarce for December weddings, in either country - the difference is, is that more people are likely to think of December weather being OK to get married in, in NZ, than here.

[Kingy 0]

With such variancies within the UK , it stand to reason that things will be different in NZ!!

 

I dont alter my prices downwards, but do put them up if I am expected to work longer or take extra kit etc.

 

I do not offer a discount for last minute bookings. As I see it, that may encourage people to start booking later rather than sooner, expecting a discount. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Award Entertainment 0]

QUOTE (Kingy @ Apr 2 2004, 09:18 PM)

With such variancies within the UK , it stand to reason that things will be different in NZ!!

I think you'll find our markets are more similar than you imagine. The biggest difference is that we have much fewer weddings per year because of our tiny population. I'm off to bed now, but I'll respond to some of the questions when I get a moment. I've got a £501.67 weddig tomorrow night, which is higher than the average because it's an hour's drive away. It's already paid in full incidentally....

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Dukesy 0]

Ok Andrew - dare you to start a new topic then! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif

[Hugmaster 0]

Hi

 

To answer the question of how do you break down your charges...it goes like this.

 

Do a business plan.

 

Sorry that's a little facescious, but broadly speeking, doing a business plan will almost certainly set your prices for you.

 

Work out how much it costs to put on a show, taking into consideration the following:

 

1. Travel to and from venue

2. Other travel costs, wear and tear, insurance etc.

3. Music purchases

4. equipment repair and maintenance, depreciation etc

 

You get the idea.

 

Once you've worked out your expences, averaged over a 12 month period, then you work out, as best you can how many bookings you feel you're likely to get, and work out how much profit you want to make per gig.

 

Bingo!!!!

 

Do a business plan, really I'm serious, it'll help you check to see if you're on target or not.

 

"People who fail to plan are planning to fail"

 

Darren

[Award Entertainment 0]

I'll address these one at a time. Sorry for the delay in replying- I had a wedding on last night, plus a few more agreements and deposits to receipt for next summer.

 

QUOTE (Kingy @ Apr 1 2004, 09:46 PM)

I don’t get many gaps in the diary, certainly not Saturdays anyhow, but do feel undervalued. If I was to charge more (which incidentally I am well above average with my fees) I am sure I would start to lose work to the " Cheaper Guys". Places such as The Hyatt Regency in the centre of Brum, and many of the other leading big hotels only pay  between £200 and £220 per night and you are on till 1 AM! Then of course you have the agencies!

 

Kingy, I don't work anything like every weekend. In fact I'm quite contented to have only 20 to 25 weddings per year. I still earn more than most of my competitors and I actually get to spend time doing things I want to do and have quality time with my wife and 2 young sons.

 

Why on earth would you try and book your work through a 3rd party? I never take bookings through venues or agencies as it means I'm not able to sell myself to the clients. No Hotel Function Manager will ever be able to sell me as well as I can sell myself. If I’m dealing directly with the client, it’s one less headache for the venue and they never need to worry about your costs and your tax!

 

QUOTE (DJshaggy Apr 1 2004 @ 10:26 PM)

there are just too many under cutting me at the moment i am having to hammer venues with my cards

 

I’ve only got every other DJ in my country undercutting me. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Again, here’s a suggestion: don’t try to sell yourself to the venues- sell yourself to the BRIDES!

 

QUOTE (kazzachi Apr 2 2004 @ 12:04 AM)

just because somebody drives a merc doesnt mean to say they will pay the top fee for a service

 

No it doesn’t, but you’d agree that they have already decided that there is a premium to pay for quality and that premium is worth paying if it’s something important to them. My clients pay top dollar for my service even though there are plenty of alternative DJ’s in my city who will do basically the same job for a third my price. Why do you suppose that is?

 

QUOTE

For me, I would rather work 3/4 times per week and earn a good living than wait to get the highest paying gigs and work less often. The more I work, the more work I get, and any good dj doesnt have to read a book to tell them how to increase their business potential!

 

Fair enough. Personally I’d rather work less, but for more money (working smarter, not harder?). I love my job and it shows when I entertain, but mostly I work to earn the money and time to do what I want with my time at home.

 

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon Apr 2 2004 @ 12:49 AM)

Average Beer Price (most important):- £1.60 / pint (Local Beer - during happy hour) Unleaded Petrol (per Litre) £0.791 / £3.50 per Gallon Council (property) Tax:- £1017 / year based on a 3 bedroomed property valued at £93,000 Average Wage (Factory Manual Labour / Clerical) £12,000 per annum Electricity:- £200 per Quarter Gas:- £150 per Quarter Water Rates:- £280 / Year Would be interested to see how this compares with the Expensive South (of the UK), Norway and NZ

 

New Zealand rough equivalent prices, converted to £:

Average Beer Price:- £1.60 / pint (About the same)

Unleaded Petrol (per Litre) £0.42 / £1.90 per Gallon (cheaper)

Council (property) Tax:- £743/year based on 4 bedroom property valued £110,000 (cheaper)

Average Wage (all sources) £10,000 per annum (lower)

Electricity:- £96 per Quarter

Gas:- £74 per Quarter

Water Rates:- £0 / Year (included in our council rates)

New Ford Mondeo 2.0L Duratec HE 5 speed:- £13,500

New Passat 1.9 TDI Sedan:- £20,000

 

 

There were 20,700 marriages registered in New Zealand in 2002, with the median ages for men and women marrying for the first time at 29.4 and 27.6 years respectively.

[Award Entertainment 0]

Continued! Sorry guys- you all deserve an answer right?

 

QUOTE (Kingy @ Apr 2 2004, 02:51 AM)

I simply dont think you would get the money Richard

 

Plenty of guys told me that here in New Zealand, but that didn’t stop me from doing it. I’m not suggesting you could or should charge that much. It’s just what I charge. That’s all.

 

QUOTE

I never jump in with a quote for a function, always explain about experience, reliability, flexibility etc, and 9/10 calls end up in a booking, so the sales technique works

 

I don’t book anywhere near that amount. My strike rate would be closer to 1 or 2 out of ten only. I still do around 25 to 30 weddings per year, which equals £10,750 to £12,900 per annum (gross) on top of my full-time job.

 

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon Apr 2 2004 @ 03:01 AM)

I am assuming that you have lived in the UK at some point Richard?, if so which area did you reside?

 

Not really Chris, although I was born in Bangor, Wales. I left when I was very small and haven’t yet returned, although one day I will.

 

QUOTE (mikeee Apr 2 2004 @ 11:15 AM)

Richard, another Mark Ferrell convert, there was a chap here last year called Derek, how was 110% a MF convert

 

Yes, that was Derek Pengelly, nice guy. We conversed a little online and came to the conclusion that our two markets were extremely similar. He’s actually been to the Las Vegas Mobile Beat DJ Show, which is certainly a goal for me.

 

QUOTE (kazzachi Apr 2 2004 @ 11:47 AM)

Richard... are you saying that weddings in winter in nz are cheaper?

 

In short, yes. Airfares, accommodation, venues, caterers, photographers all tend to have off-peak rates.

 

QUOTE (kazzachi Apr 2 2004 @ 11:47 AM)

By reducing your prices by 50% during winter months would, in my opinion, be a totally negative marketing issue

 

That’s certainly something I’ve considered long and hard and will monitor closely next season. So far, I’ve had no negative impact. Basically, people get married in Autumn or Winter for one of 3 reasons:

1. The picturesque scenery- snow capped mountains, less wind and golden leaves on trees.

2. Getting the right venue or wedding professional at short notice (less than 12 months)

3. Budget.

Historically I’ve not discounted my services, but I also don’t do many functions over winter. My wife & I have bought a house that’s probably a bit more than we can afford while she’s off work looking after our two young boys, so the special is a trial to see if I can drum up a couple of jobs. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

QUOTE (Hugmaster Apr 3 2004 @ 07:39 PM)

doing a business plan will almost certainly set your prices for you. Work out how much it costs to put on a show, taking into consideration the following: 1. Travel to and from venue 2. Other travel costs, wear and tear, insurance etc. 3. Music purchases 4. equipment repair and maintenance, depreciation etc

 

You’re dead right and I’d suggest adding a few more big things: retirement, marketing, taxes, self-improvement, business improvement and a buffer in case of changing times.

 

[kazzachi 0]

Sorry Richard.... therefore, if you want to earn more per job... then you can only achieve it during peak wedding season! For me, I prefer to earn a decent crust no matter what the season... which means I havent overpriced myself. Dont you concede that if you can get a good price in the summer months.. then you should also be able to get it in the winter..... because the service you are selling is yourself... and you dont give any less of a service just because not so many people get married in the winter! It would appear that your pricing is not dependant upon your service after all.. it seems that you have gone down the "supply and demand" route... for which you dont need to read a book to subscribe to this policy... ! As you give a whopping 50% discount during the winter months, it appears that you are doubling your fee when the demand is high!

 

Please dont take this as having a knock.. if you can get it go for it... but I sincerley believe that the authors of the books you mention have marketed their strategy very cleverly........ I think I would have been impressed if they had taught you how to achieve a higher price all year round.. rather than just disguise the old "supply and demand" strategy!

Edited April 4, 2004 by kazzachi

[Ian Stewart 0]

I may be wrong, But Richard did state that he only works at weddings, so his work will be more seasonal.

 

 

[kazzachi 0]

seasonal or not...... if you get what you are worth, you shouldnt have to deduct 50%!

[ChrisPointon 0]

I tend to be flexible with regard to functions and cover everything from Primary Schools to 100th Birthdays. I don't think that specialising in one function is "me", although I can understand that some people may prefer one function over an other.

 

Last year I covered more than 30 Wedding Receptions in the same venue, I was also working the same club residency as well. Working at the same two venues for weeks on end almost zapped my will to live http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/sad.gif , and its not something which I will be repeating this year.

 

Yes, I still have the same run of Weddings but at different venues and locations (Variety is the spice of life etc), and from my own business point of view I am approaching my 2nd most lucrative time of year after the Xmas period. This year's workload, after a slow start is increasing nicely, and this coupled with a more search engine friendly index page on the Website is expected to continue.

 

I have done no real advertising for almost 4 years, new work is coming in from recommendations and the website alone, so I am happy that (1) People are pleased with my level of service and (2) Despite criticism to the contary by so called website professionals, my website is working, and working well http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif .

 

I am always wary of people paying for instruction and so called get rich quick schemes, and it reminds me of the smarmy snake oil purveyors who promise so much and deliver very little. I don't believe that people should pay for E-books, Books, Downloads and basic advice. I have read several books by industry leaders, and found that many contain only basic common sense and ideas which wouldn't work in this area. They may have also been written by a single Author who may be biased or prejudiced against certain aspects of the industry - after all we are all human and all have our opinions. Personally I think that there is no substitute for hands on experience and working with an experience DJ. These "apprenticeships", offer something which no book or forum can, and that is real lif experience, there are many aspects of D.j'ing which cannot be taught by reading text.

 

Providing that such information is FREE, I am happy for D.J's such as Richard to come on to the forum and offer methods of information which are geared to help people with their marketing and presentation skills. Being Skeptical in nature I would also be interested in hearing from anybody in the UK who have utilised the information and found it to work for them. Whatever your own opinions please remember that we all have methods which we have used to our advantage, but they may not work for the next D.J. Even so we should continue to encourage and support the swapping of new ideas even if we feel that one particular method may not work for us, the next one may well turn out to be a goldmine!.

 

I do however take exception to the member who spammed the forum overnight with "I am a top ranking DJ - buy my DVD for $49.00". This is a community where all information is exchanged free of charge and advice is given freely and willingly by its membership.

[kazzachi 0]

Crispy... the spammer obviously doesnt earn enough money dj-ing if he is spamming asking us to buy his dvd! Either that or he is just plain thick - asking us to spend our cash on advice/tips which are - as you say - given freely on this forum! (perhaps he is trying to sell his dvd to compensate for the fact that he doesnt earn enough as a "top dj")!!! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/071.gif

[mikeee 0]

Just a quick point, almost every thing thats been said, WAS done in the UK 20 years ago. What happened, everybody thought it was easy money, jumped on the band wagon. Now we have thousands of DJ's keeping the price down. But only those who were around 20 years ago will know that.

OK, I've got my prices up, but will offer my services out of season for slighty less (not 50%).

[Award Entertainment 0]

Mikee, I'll say this much- I'll never tell anybody that it's easy to charge top dollar. You've got to work extremely hard and get yourself out of the gig-pig mentality (gotta-work-every-gig). You need to understand how marketing a service differs from marketing a product and you need to completely alter your approach to business so you appeal to your target demographic. It's not easy, but it's truly rewarding.

 

I prefer the events I work at now, the people are better dressed, more polite, less aggressive when drunk, the other professionals are nicer to work with, I can afford to buy better gear, etc.

[Hugmaster 0]

Hi

 

Wow, a lot of ground covered here.

 

I've got no problem with paying for something, whether it's a book, Ebook, service whatever. The problem with "free" is there's so much of it that is trash.

 

for example, I've downloaded many "free" Ebooks on web marketing, design bla bla bla, all of them just pushign the same old stuff I've read time and time again, some of it even word for word.

 

I'd sooner pay for a product, once I've verified to my own satisfaction that I'll be getting good value for money.

 

A case in point...

 

When it came to redesigning my website, totally from scratch, I knew virtually nothing, just a little html and that was it. I had no clue about search engines, how to write web copy that would encourage visitors to read on etc.

 

Two Ebooks later, "make Your Site Sell, by Ken Evoy" and "Make your words Sell, by Joe Robson", plus a lot of hard work, and my site now pulls in more targeted visitors, even though my visitor count is down. I'd sooner get ten visitors and 4 book than fifty visitors and only 2 book.

 

I feel I got excellent value for my Ebooks and use these books as the cornerstone of any advice I give to others.

 

Most people who are serious about a subject are willign to pay for good information.

 

Of course hands on is better, but why spend 18 month stumbling around in the dark crunching your brain until you may or may not stumble across the correct method, when you can pay a few quid for a good book that will show you how it's done?

 

I certainly wouldn't expect to offer my DJ services for nothing.

 

Darren

[ChrisPointon 0]

QUOTE

The problem with "free" is there's so much of it that is trash.

 

Cheek http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif

 

Well, feel free to make a donation to this forum Darren, and anybody who's given advice if it makes you feel better http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/toot.gif

[Award Entertainment 0]

lol Chris. I feel happy sharing my experience and I've mentored a few DJ's both here in NZ as well as abroad. I do this for free. Why? Because I wish somebody had done the same for me 10 or 15 years ago so I could be so much further ahead in my business than I am. I also feel a duty to give something back and help raise the standard of mobile DJ's.

 

Quite simply, if you feel that investing a little money (in the chance that you might learn something useful) is a waste, then don't invest. Visit a library and borrow the book if you want, or ignore the advice altogether. As soon as I realised that I didn't know everything and that I could learn from others, new doors of opportunity flew open that I'd never recognised as doors before.

Edited April 5, 2004 by Rendezvous

[ChrisPointon 0]

Richard, I agree with most of what you have posted so far. I was 13 when I started D.J'ing, and once my parents realised that my interest wasn't a passing fad, then they found a trusted, and already long - established D.J through a family friend. Like most teenagers, at the time I thought I knew it all, when in fact I knew very little. Had it not have been for my mentor, back then, then I doubt that working alone in the real world I would not have lasted five minutes!.

 

I trained for 2 years, then I invested in some 2nd hand gear and the rest, as they say, is history http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif . I also believe that not everybody can be a DJ and it is all down to attitude and personality, but sometimes even natural talent for a job has to be helped along, and this is where the rest of us come in. However, there are those in the industry who view newbies with suspicion, and who are not willing to share advice, or who purely see it as a business opportunity. After all the Newbie of today is the competition of tomorrow, right?.

 

Sadly, they don't see it as passing something on, and that is a shame. Personally, I see it as giving something back to the indusctry. After all somebody invested their time and dedication in helping me. As an individual I also hope that I am better for it, I certainly get a great deal of satisfaction through watching people make a success of D.J'ing.

 

On the Competition argument. I have trained a lot of people over the years, of all ages from around 14 - 62. Okay, some found that the business was not for them, but at least they found that out before they ruined somebodies big day through inexperience, or wasted £3000 on their own equipment. Most of them did go on to make a success of it, but I can honestly say that non of these have, to my knowledge, undercut me, or poached any clients, in fact we still keep in touch and pass work to each other.

 

After all, if you have confidence in your abilities as an Entertainer and your reputation speaks for itself then why worry about any competition?. After all when training somebody the adage applies:- "I taught them all that they know.......But not everything that I Know" http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif .

 

Richard, I am glad that you are enjoying your time on the forum, and I am happy that you are willing to share your knowledge and advice with others. We certainly could do with many more members who are also willing to post such indepth advice (and long running threads) http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/thumbup.gif